Canadian Computer Consulting

February 2006

Do Not Trust LaGarge or StoreFront.NET (SF.NET)
Click here to see the Better Business Bureau's record on LaGarde.

Here's why:

This is the complete story -- a review of my experience with LaGarde Storefront's "customer service".  They were VERY helpful.  Extremely helpful.  In fact, exceptionally helpful.  Right up until the very *moment* I gave them my credit card number.

Here's something interesting!  Check out the Better Business Bureau's record on LaGarde.  They have had 16 complaints filed against them in the past 3 years.  Only one of them has been dealt with by LaGarde.  Two were closed for administrative reasons, and the rest were ignored by LaGarde.

Anyway, back to my saga:

I was out shopping, at the end of November 2005, for an ASP.NET (in particular VB.NET) shopping cart solution for a website I was building.  I looked at LaGarde Software's StoreFront.net and I also looked at BV Software's BV Commerce 2004 (BVC2004).  Both offer a "free trial", but you have to pay for LaGarde's trial up front with the promise that they will refund your money for any reason if you don't like it.  I purchased StoreFront.net on Thursday, December 1st, 2005. 

Well, for many reasons, I decided that BVC2004 was a better, more stable, product, albeit more expensive.  What convinced me of this, in part, was all the good things people had to say about it on the internet.  (I should also say that I purchased and have been happily using BVC2004 for the past 3 months, and am extremely happy with my decision.  There are some features missing that I need, but I don't regret for a minute making the decision to go with BVC2004.)

LaGarde's refund policy is:

StoreFront software is eligible for a full refund if requested within 30 days from the date the software is delivered, either digital or hard copy. However, StoreFront software that includes the application source code, StoreFront 6 XE and StoreFront Enterprise Editions for example, are not eligible for refund due to the intellectual property exposed.

I contacted StoreFront.net the day after my purchase and asked for a refund.  I was instructed by them on the phone to use their online form to request a refund.  Here are the details from the form, submitted Friday, December 2nd, 2005 (Day 1):

First Name: Telfer
Last Name: Maynard
Company Name: Canadian Computer Consulting
Phone: 604-249-4486
Email: telf@computerconsulting.ca
Account Login: S49893
Order ID: 49893
Products/services to be refunded: StoreFront Advanced Ed. (AE)

Reason For Refund/Cancellation: Features did not meet expectations/needs

Comments: Thank you for allowing me to try your software!

I then received this same-day response (Day 1):

From: Services [mailto:services@lagarde.com]
Sent: December 2, 2005 1:03 PM
To: telf@computerconsulting.ca
Subject: RE: Refund Request - S49893 - 49893 - Telfer Maynard

Hello Telfer,

I will have your account manager contact you on Monday to discuss the details of your refund request. Thank you for your patience.

Thank you!

Heather Zoeller
StoreFront E-Business Consultant
LaGarde® - Makers of StoreFront® E-Business Solutions
h.zoeller@lagarde.com 
913-489-0838
Mon-Fri 8:00 am to 5:00 pm CST

I replied with this (Day 1):

On Tuesday, December 6th I sent them this (Day 5):

This was the same-day response (Day 5):

I immediately responded with (Day 5):

From: Telfer Maynard [mailto:telf@computerconsulting.ca]
Sent: December 6, 2005 12:42 PM
To: 'Services'
Subject: RE: Refund Request - S49893 - 49893 - Telfer Maynard

Your software did not meet my needs primarily because of a lack of support.  When I encountered problems during my initial attempt at installation, I tried to contact StoreFront support, but was unable to reach anyone.  No-one returned my calls until 3 days later.  In the interim, I did some research on the internet to try to solve my problem, and immediately found many other people having problems with StoreFront, and especially a lack of knowledgeable customer service at StoreFront.  I have also found that the storefront software is buggy and sluggish.  This was first demonstrated to me when I managed to crash your ENTIRE demo site during my attempts to evaluate StoreFront for purchase.

The reason I decided to purchase BV2004 instead is primarily because it gives me a server license instead of a domain license.  I was originally told on the phone by the StoreFront rep that I have access to ALL of the source code for SF if I purchase the source code version.  Apparently, though, this is not the case as how would you restrict me to one domain if you actually give me access to all the source code?  I only have the one domain to use it on, but I didn’t want to have to deal with StoreFront’s attempts to restrict the operation of my shopping cart.  I am happy to pay more for something that I have complete control over and can fix myself.

Can you please confirm that the refund has been processed to my credit card?

Telfer Maynard
Canadian Computer Consulting
telf@computerconsulting.ca
604-249-4486
#14 - 3552 West 41st Ave
Vancouver, BC  V6N 4J9

On Thursday, December 8th, I received the following (Day 7):

From: Services [mailto:services@lagarde.com]
Sent: December 8, 2005 11:14 AM
To: Telfer Maynard
Subject: RE: Refund Request - S49893 - 49893 - Telfer Maynard

Hello Telfer,

I have submitted the refund to our orders department.  They will send you a link to our RMA form and instruction on returning this form.  Once you submit this form your will then be processed.  For further information or follow up in regards to your refund request you will want to email orders@storefront.net.

Thank you,

Larry Henggeler

StoreFront Technical Services
LaGarde® - Makers of StoreFront® E-Business Solutions
services@storefront.net
913-489-0870
Mon-Fri 8:00 am to 5:00 pm CST

On Friday, December 9th (Day 8), I got a blank email from Dawn Marlborough with an attachment.  You can see the PDF file here, but it basically just asks me the same questions that I answered before, all over again.

From: Dawn Marlborough [mailto:D.Marlborough@lagarde.com]
Sent: December 9, 2005 12:06 PM
To: telf@computerconsulting.ca
Subject: RMA

On Monday, December 12th (Day 11), I got another email, unsigned, from orders@lagarde.com with the same attachment, but with the following in the body of the email:

From: Orders [mailto:orders@lagarde.com]
Sent: December 12, 2005 1:31 PM
To: telf@computerconsulting.ca
Subject: 49893

Dear Mr. Maynard,

Your refund request has been received on 12/08/05. Your RMA number is 49893RMA. Please enter this in the area provided on the PDF form that is attached. Please return any physical media that you ordered, such as CD's and manuals, and the completed RMA. Once these are received, please allow 2 to 4 weeks to complete the processing of your refund, as stated on our website. You will receive an email confirmation of your credit for your records.

 Thank you!

I am ashamed to admit that I let my temper get the better of me at this point.  I replied, same-day, with (Day 11):

From: Telfer Maynard [mailto:telf@computerconsulting.ca]
Sent: December 12, 2005 2:32 PM
To: 'Orders'
Subject: RE: 49893

I am so very, very angry with you people.  I had a relatively happy time trying StoreFront and only decided *not* to use it because of the articles on the web about people’s bad experiences with your product.  You can now add one more EXTREMELY unhappy and EXTREMELY frustrated x-customer to the list.  And you can bet I will be posting my experiences on the web for others to read about, too!  Since when does it take “2 – 4 weeks” to process a credit card return?!?!?!  When we do it here at my office it takes about 45 seconds.  And why do you make it so incredibly difficult to return your product?  I have filled out WAY too many forms and talked to WAY too many people about this return already.  I will send in the form as you request, but I am *not* happy about it.  I am seriously considering just calling my credit card company and doing a charge-back.  It would make my life *much* easier.

I have been asked THREE TIMES now by your company why I was not happy with the product.  The fact of the matter is I WAS happy with the product.  I’m just EXTREMELY *UN*happy with your customer service.  Get rid of all the red tape, forget all your bloody forms and commission sales people, and just process my return.

-Telf

Telfer Maynard
Canadian Computer Consulting
telf@computerconsulting.ca
604-249-4486
#14 - 3552 West 41st Ave
Vancouver, BC  V6N 4J9

After that, I never heard from them again. Apparently they added me to their mailing list because I have received several advertising emails, but nothing in response to my refund.  I sent the refund request back to them by courier, so I would be able to track it.  You can see the details here, but it was signed for on December 29th, 2005 (Day 27) by Lairah Bacon.

They have not returned any of my many, many phone calls since then, and although I manage to reach their receptionist, I keep getting passed on to people's voicemail systems.  My email has similarly not been replied to.  As of now, February 2006, I am working through my credit card company to have the charges reversed.  What a pain -- gobs more paperwork.

I sent them another (admittedly not so nice) email  on Wednesday, February 22, 2006.  (Day 82):

From: Telfer Maynard [telf@computerconsulting.ca ]
Sent: February 22, 2006 1:55 PM
To:  'D.Marlborough@lagarde.com'
Cc: 'bob.lagarde@lagarde.com '; 'Orders@lagarde.com '; 'Services@lagarde.com '; 'T.Hesseltine@lagarde.com '; 'sales@storefront.net '; 'support@storefront.net '; 'netadmin@lagarde.com '; 'laura@LAGARDE.COM '; 'b.lagarde@lagarde.com '; 'h.zoeller@lagarde.com '
Subject: RE: RMA for order # 49893
Importance: High

Dear LaGarde,

Re: RMA for order # 49893

You acknowledged receipt of my refund request on December 8^th, 2005.  My money has *NOT* been refunded to my credit card as yet.  My many telephone messages have not been returned and my emails have been ignored.

Please make sure my money is refunded IMMEDIATELY.

I can promise you that you will lose many, many customers because of me.   DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW.

Telfer Maynard
Canadian Computer Consulting
telf@computerconsulting.ca
Vancouver: 604-249-4486
Victoria: 250-412-4675
Fax: 604-909-2709

I received the following on Thursday morning (Feb 23rd) (Day 83):

I sent this to Heather on Friday morning (Feb 24th) (Day 84):

From: Telfer Maynard [mailto:telf@computerconsulting.ca]
Sent: February 24, 2006 7:48 AM
To: 'Heather Zoeller'
Subject: RE: RMA for order # 49893

Hi Heather,

Yours is the only response I have received to my email.  I have also not received any response to the two telephone messages I left on Wednesday – one for Dawn, and the other mailbox I don’t remember the name.

-Telf

Telfer Maynard
Canadian Computer Consulting
telf@computerconsulting.ca
Vancouver: 604-249-4486
Victoria: 250-412-4675
Fax: 604-909-2709

I sent out another email on Feb 26th (Day 86).

From: Telfer Maynard [mailto:telf@computerconsulting.ca]
Sent: February 26, 2006 1:31 PM
To: 'T.Hesseltine@lagarde.com'; 'bob.lagarde@lagarde.com'; 'Orders@storefront.net'; 'Services@storefront.net'; 'sales@storefront.net'; 'support@storefront.net'; 'netadmin@lagarde.com'; 'b.lagarde@lagarde.com'; 'Heather Zoeller'; 'm.levin@lagarde.com'; 'j.auslander@lagarde.com'; 'storefront@lagarde.com'; 'randy@lagarde.com'; 'm.scott@lagarde.com'; 'media@lagarde.com'; 'don@lagarde.com'; 's.fender@lagarde.com'; 'j.willson@lagarde.com'; 'llesterlin@lagarde.com'; 'jlittle@lagarde.com'; 'sarah@lagarde.com'; 'srasmuss@LaGarde.com'; 'ceo@lagarde.com'; 'ali@lagarde.com'; 'J.Hinds@lagarde.com'; 'l.lillard@lagarde.com'; 'employment@lagarde.com'; 'd.collins@lagarde.com'; 'D.Marlborough@lagarde.com';'l.bacon@lagarde.com'
Subject: Customer Service concern
Importance: High

Dear LaGarde/StoreFront Employees:

Please read my original email, below, and then forward this to the correct departments and/or bring it to Bob’s attention.  An acknowledgement of receipt might be nice, too.  You can also see my blog on my website (computerconsulting.ca), under “Misc Tips”.  I just posted it online yesterday.  I am quite eager to see how many hits I receive once it is indexed by Google.

I have not had a single telephone message returned or email replied to since December 12^th, 2005 (with the exception of Heather’s email, below.  Thank you Heather!)  I am still waiting for my refund of $1072 CDN.  Could someone please refund my money to my credit card right away, and email me confirmation of such?

Telfer Maynard
Canadian Computer Consulting
telf@computerconsulting.ca
Vancouver: 604-249-4486
Victoria: 250-412-4675
Fax: 604-909-2709

At least their mail server knows how to reply to a request for delivery confirmation!:

From: postmaster@lagarde.com [mailto:postmaster@lagarde.com]
Sent: February 26, 2006 1:31 PM
To: telf@computerconsulting.ca
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Success)

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Your message has been successfully delivered to the following recipients.

       S.Heath@lagarde.com
       M.Levin@lagarde.com
       S.Fender@lagarde.com
       H.Zoeller@lagarde.com
       J.Hinds@lagarde.com
       T.Hesseltine@lagarde.com
       J.Auslander@lagarde.com
       L.Snitker@lagarde.com
       D.Cates@lagarde.com
       orders@lagarde.com
       services@lagarde.com
       D.Marlborough@lagarde.com
       L.Bacon@lagarde.com

From: postmaster@lagarde.com [mailto:postmaster@lagarde.com]
Sent: February 26, 2006 1:31 PM
To: telf@computerconsulting.ca
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

       ali@lagarde.com
       ceo@lagarde.com
       d.collins@lagarde.com
       don@lagarde.com
       j.willson@lagarde.com
       jlittle@lagarde.com
       llesterlin@lagarde.com
       m.scott@lagarde.com
       randy@lagarde.com
       srasmuss@LaGarde.com
       storefront@lagarde.com

I've received a few "read confirmations" (not all email programs will send them, and most ask the recipient whether they would like to send one or not):

Dawn Marlborough read it: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:39:04 -0600
Steve Heath read it: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:25:39 -0600
Lairah Bacon read it: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:25:09 -0600
Orders@lagarde.com read it: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:39:02 -0600

Well, after much frustration, a big thank you goes to Steve Heath.  Much appreciated.  Thank you!

From: Steve Heath [mailto:S.Heath@lagarde.com]
Sent: February 27, 2006 3:39 PM
To: telf@computerconsulting.ca
Subject: StoreFront Refund

Dear Customer,

We have processed your refund for the recent StoreFront order you placed and we have processed the refund to your credit card. The amount is $896.00. Your transaction ID number is VZVE1ABB366A.  Please consider this your credit receipt.

Thanks,

Steve Heath
LaGarde^® - Makers of StoreFront^® E-Business Solutions

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(updated March 22, 2008)

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